BAN RULES!

[S0n1c]

I meant exactly what you said. You could only mention 3 admins out of 20 or more. The remainin 17 are proobably very inactive, very busy, don't give a shit to LVP or are the worst admins I have ever seen xD Also, when I said staff I included admins and managements, with managements that don't give a flying fuck to the server giving pretty tough competition to admins, on who are the worst, them or the admins?   

[Sleep]

Well Saba, the rules that apply to admins about banning/kicking have been shifting. I'm not gonna go into details. But as far as I'm concerned I've been handling bans/kicks as I see fit and if the player feels like I've done wrong>> There's still the complaints and ban appeal sections where things can be dealt with.

Oresti, I don't understand what you mean by "it lacks staff" there are still some quite qualified administrators such as mrJt, Humza and our beloved holsje. I feel that the current administrators lack support from managers.

xD

[Batata45]

Make LVP great again.
Matrix, you recently got promoted, what will your first move be? I for myself think that players and admins should work together to achieve something, currently it's always players VS admins.
Vox Populi, there should be a topic opened by someone from Management/Administration to ask what we, players, want. This topic is one of the things we want.
We're fed up by the way administrators can ban or do whatever they want, and they can't be blamed afterwards because it's "how he sees fit".

However, I think the problem doesn't only come from the administration. We all are responsible. Administrators are just people that have some powers to put some order on the server, we don't want to play in anarchy. But most of the time, we, as players disagree with how these powers are used, because instead of acting in a way defined and decided by all of us, admins act in their way.

tl;dr
Let's make some real rules together, otherwise nobody will be happy and continue to argue that this or that isn't fair

[Saba]

Saba , I Don't Wanna Mistake You But if You Don't know the whole story even if you're from decades Then don't intercept in matters that are irrelevant of yours ! I Wanna Ask That Politely !

i cant understand you, sorry

[Sleep]

Well Saba, the rules that apply to admins about banning/kicking have been shifting. I'm not gonna go into details. But as far as I'm concerned I've been handling bans/kicks as I see fit and if the player feels like I've done wrong>> There's still the complaints and ban appeal sections where things can be dealt with.

Oresti, I don't understand what you mean by "it lacks staff" there are still some quite qualified administrators such as mrJt, Humza and our beloved holsje. I feel that the current administrators lack support from managers.

xD

HUMZA XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd

[Batata45]

[Humza]

^Keep spamming, I won't mind because it shows how immature you are.

Batata, I agree with you at some points and there is no need of another thread, this was started just for that so we should discuss it here but guys here are posting some weird shit because of their personal hatred.

I am looking forward to it! Let's see what you got @batata, go a head let's start with you.

[Batata45]

Well we should start by putting up some rules, as in what sanction for which rule you break ?

for example at the moment, a simple fake car entry done by a regular is worth a ban, isn't this too much considering admins have /jail, /handofgod and many commands they can have fun with. I guess it's pretty normal to see players complain in their ban appeals when they get banned for that. This is just an example among many others. (for example you get banned for flaming, but there is /mute and even permanent mute...)

We should create a table with the offences, and what they will get you, for example flaming too much will result in a mute, and each time you get muted next time the time is doubled/tripled. and maybe if someone can code a bit (I can, but I'm kind of lost with LVP's language mixing JS C++ pawn etc) he could make a small warning system.

the warning system could work as so: admins won't ban you for "minor offences" (such as flaming, death evading, anything not causing """"real harm"""), they would have a /warn <player> and if this player gets X warnings, he will be banned whether the offence is minor or major (by major I mean: cheats, racism, unstopping trolling/annoying behavior that results in harm to other players (harassment, focusing the player to make him rq every time he's on, ...), abusing bugs,...)

This is just a plan of what could work to replace the bans, I think people get banned for nothing, the bans are just because they said "pee" or "penis".
We're all grown-ups, so we all have to stop having this childish behavior, whether it be players or admins, or even me.

[Matrix_Smith]

Well we should start by putting up some rules, as in what sanction for which rule you break ?

We used to work with something similar to what you have described. The issue with this method is that there are so many infractions players can make that a list describing every one of these is going to be very long and painful to remember for both players and admins alike. This list constantly needed to be updated each time we switched to a different release of sa-mp and each time a new additions to our server were made. That's why we opted for a much simpler 'common sense' guideline, both for players and admins sake (https://administrator.guide/). The gist of it is that any form of command abuse is wrong and can be followed by consequences. We expect players to be capable of understanding what is right and what is wrong. If there is any confusion about what is or isn't allowed, you can always ask the admin in game.

Another issue with this list is that consequences are not going to be exactly same for everyone. We tend to hand out heftier sanctions to players with a history of abusing than to players who rarely do. Kind of like that warning system you described.

I understand that this method is not infallible, it may lead to ambiguity from time to time, but I think it's easier to work with for everyone involved.

Of course, if you think the demand is great enough, you can always create a poll and let LVP decide.

I also agree with you that bans are handed out too quickly these days. Admins have a variety of commands at their disposal to deal with abuse. A ban should be a last resort, for when players who have been warned do not listen, or for players who should definitely know better (long history of abuse). I'd like to see more jailtime and kicks instead of reaching for the hammer. I'll try to communicate this with our crew over the next few weeks and hopefully we can evaluate the results together

[Batata45]

I am pleased with your response.
You summed up the good and bad. When I talked about a list, I understand that it is indeed hard to define everything a player can do to break the rules, and it's also hard for administrators to remember it. We can see my suggestion in many ways, the way you did, and the way I think (it's hard to really make others understand what we mean by writing, so let me explain my view): as said, it would be hard/impossible to remember each punishment for each thing, this is why I think there shouldn't be a "quantitative" quality to the punishment. I mean by this that an action will have a wide range of punishment.
I won't open a poll as I think you have understood my message, which was mainly that banning isn't always the solution.
See it as this: say you've got 2 children in front of you, then one hits the other with his toy. The correct action to take wouldn't be to remove the toy and punish the kid, but rather talk and explain why this is bad.
I know it's pretty hard to identify ourselves as kids because we are already grown up. Players that get banned will be more likely to be banned again in the future, a player gets banned, he will think "oh I'm in the bad guy category, but I'm not a bad guy..."
Administrators, as I noticed, they like focus on previously banned players. Proof: we always see the same people in the ban section of the forum, whether they are wrong or right. (I really don't want to give names). And the topics everytime end the same way.

I think the best solution is to lengthen the default ban length. Previously it was one month (maybe this is also a reason why admins ban more?). Less bans, but if you get banned it's for longer. (Naturally if there is less bans, other punishments will be used more often)