[Serious Discussion] Religion

[STyL4]

failed to answer the question (which most of real scientists did) so yea.. let's start about the topic TwistedDemon has no clue about (he got way too scientific with his Quaran and "how to sleep" xD ) and Dominator33 , Slice and other uL fan-girls, i know i've trolled you alot ingame etc. but this is a debate not considering sa-mp.

1.) "unless you define the words (cause a broad interpretation is possible): self-observation, self-collapse and the circumstances for the self collapse, i can not aswer that question."


"ok let me make this really simple:

self-observation = consciousness, self-collapse = Orch-OR, therefore consciousness = Orch-OR  - see 5.) "



2.) "I have problems with the use of ontological arguments. Since they are not based on any scientific proof."


"then you have a problem with scientific proofs as scientific proof is necessarily dependent on philosophy of science which is necessarily dependent on ontological proof. To negate this is to contradict oneself."



3.) "The reason why there is a misinterpretation is that the universe does not equal a self collapsing wave function,"


"no one said it did. The wave-function OF the universe is self-collapsing. The wave-function of the universe is "behind" or more fundamental than the universe though."


4.) "it is a property that we (humans) have given to the universe in order to try and understand the behaviour and the quantumphysical measurement problem. Is this property correct?"


"yes wave-function collapse is a real phenomena just look up the "Zeno effect'"



5.) "maybe so, maybe not. We use it untill it proves us wrong. Since there are much theories about that problem you can just pick one out and combine it with just whatever theory you like."

"well it's a bit more than that. most people who don't like it don't like it based on materialist or positivist grounds. however since the Wigner's friend experiment demonstrates that collapse = observation it is by definition true that self-collapse = self-observation."


6.) "penrose Orch Or has nothing to do with God. You have to prove me wrong on that one. Because according to your theory. Universe=Mind=Self Collapsing wave function=God=Consciousness.""



"no Orch-OR ITSELF doesn't have anything to do with God, but you haven't been paying attention. Let me restate this very carefully:

1.) Self-collapsing wave-functions are minds. (Orch-OR)
2.) The wave-function of the universe is self-collapsing. (true by definition as there is nothing physical outside of the universe -by definition- to measure and collapse it)
therefore: the wave-function of the universe is a mind."

my answers, im free today so..
mis interpretation? ure inventing ur own stuff.. so yes misinterpretation, come on m-