[Complaint] Admins ability to see PM's

[Hector]

Recently I just discovered that Las Venturas Playground administrators have the ability to read everyone's Personal Messages. In my opinion I don't think this should be allowed and here's both sides of the argument.

First off, I know how handy reading other people's PM's can be, for example a cheater is telling others that he/she cheats, then you can immediately look at the player and take action from then on in, but what about the regular players? Do we not deserve a little bit of privacy?

Over a period of time that I have spent in LVP I have been Personal Messaging people with information that I only want that person to know, this could be gang related or just talking to a friend, maybe other people may PM important information, but everyone has come to the conclusion that a PM is private.

PM = Personal Message

The definition of personal = 1. of, relating to, or affecting a particular person
                                    2. done in person without the intervention of another


Now, I was talking to MrBondt on IRC a few minutes ago and I said to him:

[19:06] <[SaW]Hector> I understand that reason for reading PM's.
[19:07] <[SaW]Hector> But it  should have to be for everyone
[19:07] <[SaW]Hector> shouldnt
[19:08] <+MrBondt> it isnt for everyone
[19:08] <+MrBondt> only for admins higher

Well, I don't agree with this because I feel that PM's should only be visible for management, since some admins play the game too and are in gangs / clans.

I know my argument is weak, but I feel that admins reading our PM's is an invasion of our privacy and maybe with talking we can put an end to this complaint with a straight answer or work it out.

Thanks for your time, Hector.

[MrBondt]

Moved to Open for discussion.

[Joeri]

great.. here we go with the big privacy issue again!

Recently I just discovered that Las Venturas Playground administrators have the ability to read everyone's Personal Messages. In my opinion I don't think this should be allowed and here's both sides of the argument.

1st, it up to the server crew, to decide if they want to be able to see them or not.

Well, I don't agree with this because I feel that PM's should only be visible for management, since some admins play the game too and are in gangs / clans.

keep your private time, and Job separated! a "good" admin should be able to keep those things to himself, they are private  messages, so other people should not be able to know of them.

admins need to know whats going on with the people, flame-wars, cheat stuff, other stuff declared illegal by the LVP law.
if some body is bullied, by someone else, he reports that, and then what? the admins can't check if he really did.
and if the management should be the only one allowed to read them, that will take to much of there time (they have other things to do)

so, if privacy is such a big problem, and u don't trust the admins, don't send any super-private msg, use your phone (wich the CIA can check, or use MSN (microsoft...) .. lol, thats goes to far..

Just let the management know if U found out that some admin messes private and work up, and your personal stuff gets to people which may not know those.

[Richard]

If it is really something you don't want anyone else to know, go to IRC or make gang for you two for a moment and talk there. I(admin) can't see it then, management can though.

[Fry]

Privacy is a privilege, not a right. You're not guaranteed the right to speak freely, it's a service that's provided to you.
You really shouldn't be worried, because the administrators and moderators are responsible enough to handle sensitive information like conversations between friends.

[TRaven]

Why would you discuss any really personal matters on an online game? . . . take that crap to IM where government is the only one who can see it!

[tomozj]

Well, to be honest, administrators need to see PMs. It allows us to see what's going on. Also, administrators are not allowed to take non-administrative actions based on what they see in PMs, so what's the problem if we can see?

You play at LVP under the condition that you allow us to read everything you do. Just don't think about it, as your messages will still be private, even if administrators can see them (they won't be made public, duh).

[Jay]

Na, I 100% Agree with Hector. Nobody Should be able to read Pms. Nobody. PMs are Personal Messages, Messages that you dont want other people to see. Pms should be logged, yes, Just incase a Problem Involving Bullying, Racism, etc does come along, But They defintly shouldn't be read to admins.

[Hector]

Wow, I read each and every one of the posts concerning this complaint and I fully understand what you mean.

I was having a chat with MrBondt cloakster and Cyrix404 about this situation:


[19:11] <+MrBondt> maybe it will be made management only like gangchat


[19:28] <Cyrix404> Hector, most of the time, the chat fly's by so quick, we disregard most of it except when we see certain keyworks
[19:28] <[SaW]Hector> In my opinion, what MrBondt suggested would be ideal
[19:29] <Cyrix404> I agree
[19:29] <[SaW]Hector> I mean, I understand why it's in place.
[19:29] <[SaW]Hector> I just don't feel that trusted members really need it.
[19:29] <Cyrix404> it would be less chat scrolling on our screen


[19:33] <%cloakster> For me (not sure about others) i only look for keywords like 'admin' or racism or when its all CAPS its hard not to notice it
[19:33] <[SaW]Hector> I know what you mean, but some admins actually play the game in a gang.
[19:34] <[SaW]Hector> They may read it because something has been said about them or the gang that they are in.
[19:34] <%cloakster> I think we need a policy that we need to /unadmin when fighting in a gang
[19:34] <+MrBondt> admins cant join gangs while having their powers
[19:35] <[SaW]Hector> Well, MrBondt.
[19:35] <[SaW]Hector> They may not be fighting.
[19:35] <%cloakster>
[19:35] <[SaW]Hector> But they are still in the gang.
[19:35] <+MrBondt> but that leads to a problem, clantags.
[19:35] <[SaW]Hector> And may tell thier team mates what one has said about them
[19:35] <+MrBondt> I know what you mean
[19:35] <+MrBondt> and I fully agree with you
[19:36] <+MrBondt> but it doesnt seem to be problem in here at the moment :x
[19:36] <+MrBondt> anyway
[19:36] <[SaW]Hector> But I don't think everyone knows about it? and if they do, they will be careful what they say in a PM.

[19:38] <[SaW]Hector> I mean, just before today, I was saying things which I was confident that nobdy else could see.
[19:38] <[SaW]Hector> But now that I know I will be careful.
[19:39] <+MrBondt> yes, maybe add a line to the spam you get when you enter the server
[19:39] <+MrBondt> "Admins can see everything you say" or something
[19:39] <[SaW]Hector> Well that could be a solution.
[19:39] <%cloakster> or
[19:40] <+MrBondt> then it's their own fault if they say something stupid
[19:40] <+MrBondt> like, "I use hax"
[19:40] <%cloakster> make a special PMing system available to regulars that admins cant see?
[19:40] <[SaW]Hector> Yeah.

There were some solutions floating about, and would like to know what more players think about this complaint

[Corleone]

I disagree on this topic. (Sorry Jay)

Admins of LVP should have global control of LVP. While PMs are used to communicate to other players, PMs can also be used to convince other players to cheat, harrass by span in PMs (and admins would know) or by teaming up with a group of hackers to crash the server. Even if the admins could pull up the logs later, it would be a little slow for them to reach the data in time if hackers are in the area for a server crash. And any personal messages in LVP is the responsiblilty of the player. And I seriously doubt that any admin is going to care about any personal issues...