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Not a complain per se
#1
I was jailed by an admin Sophia for death evade. And i want to clarify whether its a death evade or not.
We were sniping each other. and i just stopped shooting, never got damaged, hid and paused since I had to do something. It had approx 20 second gap. And after that she ran over, waited for me come back again and shot me dead. Ok this doesn't seem more like a death evade, but rule's a rule. But i get 4 minute jail for that and Its my very first offense.
I thought I would get a warning or even a default jail of 3 minutes. But 4 minutes of jail time and This impolite talk.
[Image: KeEJu97.png]

And I shouldn't even try to explain myself "discussion over".
#2
Okay, glad that you reported me for this but you didn't explain some of the facts other than 20 secs gap which I think is not right. Apart from what it is, allow me to clarify the situation.

So you taxi 0 to the location where I was, near the armor spot road and we engaged in a fight. Well if you really wanted to pause you could have paused in a ship, okay fine you didn't pause but when you were 1 hit away to die, you paused behind a tree and it took me 5 seconds to reach to you since the fighting distance between us was < 50 m (less than 50 metres and I can prove it theoretically). And nearly after 17 seconds of afk you came back I killed you and I had an ironic reply "Ah hmmm" which made my doubts true that you paused intentionally.

And please try to gather a right information before making any reports against me or anyone in here. I messaged you twice asking why you did it and you didn't give me a solid reply neither a response. If you wanted to go afk for something you should have told me on the spot. Like I said when you failed to respond or pass out the reason, I jailed you for intentional death evade using escape.

I am not an evil person out here. You did wrong and you got punished for it. And speaking of first offense, you're playing this game for 3-4 years I guess and you know all the rules. I can't feed you with spoons myself about rules and related stuff. This is embarrassing.

Regards,
Sophia Naz
#3
(09-17-2020, 02:13 PM)Sophia Naz Wrote: And nearly after 17 seconds of afk you came back I killed you and I had an ironic reply "Ah hmmm" which made my doubts true that you paused intentionally.

How does that clear you're doubt that I paused intentionally?

(09-17-2020, 02:13 PM)Sophia Naz Wrote: And please try to gather a right information before making any reports against me or anyone in here. I messaged you twice asking why you did it and you didn't give me a solid reply neither a response. If you wanted to go afk for something you should have told me on the spot. Like I said when you failed to respond or pass out the reason, I jailed you for intentional death evade using escape.
When you know Im afk, how can I reply? you said you saw me being afk. I was on a very urgent situation. This would never happen again.

(09-17-2020, 02:13 PM)Sophia Naz Wrote: I am not an evil person out here. You did wrong and you got punished for it. And speaking of first offense,

That means you can jail that person without giving a warning first time? Stop acting tough. You are an admin. And there are certain things you should know before going all powerful on someone.


(09-17-2020, 02:13 PM)Sophia Naz Wrote: you're playing this game for 3-4 years I guess and you know all the rules. I can't feed you with spoons myself about rules and related stuff. This is embarrassing.
And could you find words which are polite?("Discussion over").I suggest you stop venting and having grudges in-game, I have seen you give warnings to veterans too. Warning is essential. Especially that I'm a 3 year old player. you could say it to me and I won't do it again. I don't know whether you can do anything without you feeling embarrassed.
#4
Okay, we have the logs to prove you're lying again. When I killed you after you came back out of afk I did pm you and you didn't give me a response so I jailed you (AND you were not afk at that time). We have a command to see who's paused so this is just a made-up story of yours. Again you're not playing this game for the first time and you know the rules so let's NOT talk about "your first offense" or whatever.

Quote:And could you find words which are polite?("Discussion over").I suggest you stop venting and having grudges in-game, I have seen you give warnings to veterans too. Warning is essential. Especially that I'm a 3 year old player. you could say it to me and I won't do it again. I don't know whether you can do anything without you feeling embarrassed.


This is very inappropriate statement of yours, we're just playing a stupid game and your report shows you're having a grudge on me. You were just wasting my time with your replies in pm rather than getting to the point so I had to cut the chatter and get back to the other work, and that screenshot you posted also shows the follow on pm of mine saying "You're the trusted person in LVP and it's sad to see such a rulebreak from your part" as you didn't understand why I jailed you and you failed to prove yourself right about the reason of that jail.

You know what? You'll keep posting more and more drama and I'll keep proving you wrong which also, is a waste of time and I know you'll try it again to waste my time so let's just wait for the management to reply here and deal the situation which you are not understanding at all. They surely have all the logs so there's no escape for you and even for me if I am wrong.

Regards, 
Sophia Naz
#5
(09-17-2020, 03:29 PM)Sophia Naz Wrote: When I killed you after you came back out of afk I did pm you and you didn't give me a response so I jailed you

You were just wasting my time with your replies in pm rather than getting to the point so I had to cut the chatter and get back to the other work, and that screenshot you posted also shows the follow on pm of mine saying

I don't know what you're trying to prove by jailing me. Both of your statements are contradictory. Even if Im 13 years old in LVP, It is must to warn someone. If there was any other admin other than you. they would first have started killing ones who are active and then when I came back they would have inquired. But what did you do? You waited till I come back. Shot me dead. And jailed me. That isn't normal, It was like you were waiting to jail me for that minor thing. You are still missing the point, why can't you give warning to me like you to do to others? Escape for what? I didn't do a crime or something?
You are wasting everyone's time here.

By the way. You're whole argument is baseless. Why?

In Rules,
DO NOT evade death by means of quitting and re-joining, running into interiors, or using commands.

https://github.com/LVPlayground/playgrou...rules.json

I didn't quit or rejoin. I paused(not intentionally) you waited. I came back and you killed me, so no death evade right?
Pausing is only valid when a person does it and he leaves, Leaving the shooter at disadvantage of a kill.
#6
Bump! Any Managers reply?
#7
I'm going to share my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

(09-17-2020, 12:59 PM)Specifer Wrote: We were sniping each other. and i just stopped shooting, never got damaged, hid and paused since I had to do something. It had approx 20 second gap. And after that she ran over, waited for me come back again and shot me dead. Ok this doesn't seem more like a death evade, but rule's a rule. But i get 4 minute jail for that and Its my very first offense.
I thought I would get a warning or even a default jail of 3 minutes. But 4 minutes of jail time and This impolite talk.

You are right in that you should've at least received a warning, or the default 3 minute jail time instead of 4. Sophia and you have had differences even before she was promoted, so there might be some bias involved here, which is evident by how she waited to kill you first before handing you a 4 minute jail-time.

On the other hand, if you really wanted to pause while being engaged in a fight, for whatever reason, you should've simply made an attempt to finish the fight (aren't sniper fights relatively quick?) or conceded to Sophia by giving her the kill. What difference would it make, really?

(09-17-2020, 02:13 PM)Sophia Naz Wrote: And nearly after 17 seconds of afk you came back I killed you and I had an ironic reply "Ah hmmm" which made my doubts true that you paused intentionally.

If you felt that Specifier broke the rules, you should've verbally warned him or jailed him immediately. Let's say player A pauses their game for 10 minutes in the middle of a fight. Would you wait the entire duration until they're back, to kill them first, or would you jail/kick them instantly? We, as crew members, always do the latter. There's no valid reason to be fixated on one additional kill when a rule has already been broken and a warning/punishment is imminent.

(09-17-2020, 02:13 PM)Sophia Naz Wrote: And speaking of first offense, you're playing this game for 3-4 years I guess and you know all the rules. I can't feed you with spoons myself about rules and related stuff. This is embarrassing.

Looking at Specifer's logs, this is indeed his first DM-related offense. It doesn't matter if a player has been around for 1 week or 3 years — everyone deserves to be treated equally. Based on your statements about Specifier being an old/trusted player in the community, what warranted the extra minute of jail-time or the kill prior to it? A warning should've sufficed in this case. I'm sorry, Sophia, but the choice of words here are inappropriate. As an administrator, you are expected to clearly explain the rules to players and make them aware of what's right and what's wrong.

(09-17-2020, 03:29 PM)Sophia Naz Wrote: Again you're not playing this game for the first time and you know the rules so let's NOT talk about "your first offense" or whatever.

It still doesn't change the fact that it appears to be his first DM-related offense, which makes it an important factor in deciding an appropriate warning or punishment.

I hope Xilent or Holsje arrive at a conclusion and deal with this soon.
#8
Sorry, I still wanted to reply here.

We already had a brief chat on discord regarding this @Specifer I expect it to be clear.

Evading death, including using esc is not allowed. Although often no action is taken if the evadee is killed short after evading. This doesn't mean a jail isn't in place.
I agree with Beaner that it's a bit strange that the choice of an extra minute has been taken. However I assume that minute isn't really that big of a deal.
I also agree with Beaner that you two have been shown some sort of friction between the two of you. However I don't think we can fully conclude a bias here.

The words Sophia used to try and end the discussion was not very fortunate, however the logs show you started the conversation with a "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality. That's not a very fortunate start either.

In the end you both could've done better but didn't do horrible either. As crew we'd like to show more respect towards the players, but also don't want the players to think they're the know all.

Conclusion:
It's an unfortunate situation and I hope both of you will take this as a lesson.
And to clarify: Yes evading death by pausing is still against the rules.
#9
(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: Evading death, including using esc is not allowed. Although often no action is taken if the evadee is killed short after evading. This doesn't mean a jail isn't in place.

So jail for me even if its the first time?

(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: However I assume that minute isn't really that big of a deal.
However I don't think we can fully conclude a bias here.

He/she fights, argues, provokes, and gets provoked like a player(which is usual for every human). But shows his/her anger in form of extra minute jail even after I was killed and it isn't a big thing to you? How can you conclude so crudely like that?

(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: The words Sophia used to try and end the discussion was not very fortunate, however the logs show you started the conversation with a "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality. That's not a very fortunate start either.

So I mustn't even try to justify? Ok, even if I do. How does that affect the punishment I received. Even if I didn't, Its just the same. However, it's an excuse to pin the fault on me.

(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: In the end you both could've done better but didn't do horrible either. As crew we'd like to show more respect towards the players, but also don't want the players to think they're the know all.


Just wanted to ask you, If it was a newbie and this was done, how would you have known? So that newbie would have got (say) 5-minute jail for his first offense and he wouldn't know anything and nothing would have been done. except for the certain admin whose edginess would be lowered. By the way, Why are you including the whole crew when it's only some certain administrator(s)?

(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: Conclusion:
It's an unfortunate situation and I hope both of you will take this as a lesson.
And to clarify: Yes evading death by pausing is still against the rules.

You're pin-pointing that I could be jailed. Okay. Good thing I got to know Beaner's views on this. Deep down I knew you would reply supportive of admin. It's funny how you don't mention that administrators arrogant reply in this thread at all.

And Holsje, If I was killed in that particular instance itself, would that count as dead evade? If yes, Why?
#10
(10-03-2020, 05:59 AM)Specifer Wrote:
(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: Evading death, including using esc is not allowed. Although often no action is taken if the evadee is killed short after evading. This doesn't mean a jail isn't in place.

So jail for me even if its the first time?

Jail is a form of warning. Being in jail for four minutes isn't that big of a deal. As you said there was something you had to be doing. You could do that while jailed ;)

(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: However I assume that minute isn't really that big of a deal.
However I don't think we can fully conclude a bias here.

He/she fights, argues, provokes, and gets provoked like a player(which is usual for every human). But shows his/her anger in form of extra minute jail even after I was killed and it isn't a big thing to you? How can you conclude so crudely like that?

It's very strange and I apoligize this happened to you. It's very unfortunate. Jailing without killing would've been better aswell indeed.

(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: The words Sophia used to try and end the discussion was not very fortunate, however the logs show you started the conversation with a "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality. That's not a very fortunate start either.

So I mustn't even try to justify? Ok, even if I do. How does that affect the punishment I received. Even if I didn't, Its just the same. However, it's an excuse to pin the fault on me.

Ofcourse you can ask the reasoning behind jailing. It's been said to you however your attitude wasn't really helping. In your chat it didn't seem like you wanted to know why you got jailed. It was explained to you but you didn't wish to listen. Saying you know the rules better than the crew isn't going to help. You can make a topic much like this instead of making a lengthy discussion that's going nowhere.

(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: In the end you both could've done better but didn't do horrible either. As crew we'd like to show more respect towards the players, but also don't want the players to think they're the know all.


Just wanted to ask you, If it was a newbie and this was done, how would you have known? So that newbie would have got (say) 5-minute jail for his first offense and he wouldn't know anything and nothing would have been done. except for the certain admin whose edginess would be lowered. By the way, Why are you including the whole crew when it's only some certain administrator(s)?

We do monitor the IRC from time to time. And we do see certain things (but not always handle on it if not needed). Being in the jail for a while isn't the end of the world. Please don't make lit it is. It's unfortunate and I would've preferred if it stayed with a verbal warning, but that doesn't mean a jail (for default time) would've been wrong. I'll talk about the specific jail time and get back to you later if needed.

(10-02-2020, 05:36 PM)Holsje Wrote: Conclusion:
It's an unfortunate situation and I hope both of you will take this as a lesson.
And to clarify: Yes evading death by pausing is still against the rules.

You're pin-pointing that I could be jailed. Okay. Good thing I got to know Beaner's views on this. Deep down I knew you would reply supportive of admin. It's funny how you don't mention that administrators arrogant reply in this thread at all.

And Holsje, If I was killed in that particular instance itself, would that count as dead evade? If yes, Why?

You've idled in an attempt to avoid death. You were in a fight so it's not allowed to do. Next time run to the ship if you wish to idle.
You're right, the arrogant behavior isn't according to our guidelines and it's something we have to resolve. I apologize to you for that.
I'll have a talk with Sophia about it.