Tight admins

[Maddolis]

I'll begin this post as I'll end it: LVP is a server in sa-mp, which is a game.
Thats right- a game, where people have fun.

The crew have implemented new rules- or are just enforcing the same rules harsher.
I don't have much of a problem with this, so long as EVERY admin does it, or EVERY admin doesn't.

For example, I was getting screamed at one time ingame, someone using every bad word in the english language (you get the point), and I call him a "crybaby." No previous flaming or even message on my part, as I was busy fighting. Of course, as expected, I get a (perm) mute shoved in my face.
I realise "crybaby" could possibly be considered "flaming"- but it is an 18+ game where we kill people for the fun of it, with at least 200 words harsher than "crybaby" in the single player cinematics.
You don't need to restrict our ability to speak if we call someone a "crybaby."

Secondly, today, I was muted for 3 minutes for the following:
7[W]Maddolis: dem aussie women beatin dem chinese women
Nakebod seriously, I'm sure EVERYONE here understands that ^that is English.
You have people who will shout full sentences in dutch or whatever, but you mute me for 3 minutes for that? It was unneccesary to take a shot at me afterwards by telling me to take some "english lessons."
Maybe I'll start correcting every single error I see- because that is by far the tightest mute I have ever had bestowed upon me (yeah, I'll resort to speaking like a nerd if I must).

The thing that annoys me is that a couple of hours after/before, I'd be on the irc and see some [RT]/[sK]/random people (or, anyone) constantly insulting other's mothers, using "fuck" a lot, and plenty of other words- but don't get muted. Every crewmember should act the same way- and not as tight as muting for "crybaby" or "7[W]Maddolis: dem aussie women beatin dem chinese women"
Do you really think that isn't English? Half of us have issues understanding what on earth a lot of the foreign users say, far worse than "dem (them)- but people who completely sodomise the English language, spelling/grammarwise- and naturally they don't get a mute.
I don't care if its you being biased towards me (and [W]), but at least be biased on some stronger material than "dem."

In the end, you're restricting our ability to speak ingame for what reason?
Is it necessary for me to get muted for "not speaking English" by spelling "them" as "dem"?
Does it improve the LVP environment? No. You're just turning this GAME (something you're supposed to have FUN in) into a bloody right-wing totalitarian regime.

Enjoy the game- and don't bother restricting others' enjoyment by muting them for very, very questionable reasons.

And one last point- elaborating on you (Nakebod) telling me to get an "English Lesson."

English is an interesting language. It has more tricks, exceptions, and social phenomena which make it the hardest language to learn well. Now, you have terms such as "fa shizzle" or "footy," or "barbie" etc (slang words, "street talk" etc).
While such lexical items (aka 'terms' or 'words') are not in the politically-correct, upper-class English lexicon used by such organisations as law-enforcement, goverment etc, that DOES NOT exclude them from being part of the English language. A word such as "them" may be pronounced (or, on the internet, misspelled) "dem" for a light-hearted effect, or have "street-value" or appeal to a specific targeted audience.
In America, the number 1 most spoken language is English- and we have many socially acceptable phrases (fo shizzle, dem, whaddup etc) that certainly aren't Spanish, Dutch or any other language. As mentioned above, yes, they are English- they are under the subset of "urban American English."

So after you told me that I need an English lesson, ironically it is you who does not understand that my sentence was actually completely in English- granted, not the upper-class, politically-correct English- but such English is not a requirement in this community (nor should it be- its a game with many foreigners).

I think you should recognise that, in hindsight, the 3 minute mute you gave me was overzealous and mention that in a post in this thread.

Maddolis.

 m00

[Badeend]

As you might know we added this new rule basically because the flaming and provocative behaviour of some people (mainly people in gangs) got worse than ever. You are right, sa-mp is a game where people have fun. But with all this flaming the fun part pretty much disappeared for a lot of people. It just ruins the game.

But with every rule we add to the server it takes a while before every moderator and administrator is used to it and knows how to apply it in different cases. So yes, some inconsistent decisions will still be made sometimes. The crew will never do things exactly the same as every person has a different view on things, but getting it on more or less the same level just takes some time.


About the muting thing: If we would mute everyone for some typo the server would get pretty boring. I haven't seen a line with 100% correct spelling in a while in-game. So Nakebod will have to explain this himself, because I don't really understand why and how this has happened.

[Peter]

The problem more or less relies on the fact that most people, especially those involved with gangs playing on Las Venturas Playground, refuse to behave. We have various BB members who get banned for bug abuse, then get unbanned a week later and do it again; members of HC4L who get banned for flaming, get unbanned and do it again. People must understand that LVP is a free service on which we want a nice environment, a subject we lately have received a lot of complaints about.

In my opinion, which also was the cause of the flaming rule being activated in the first place, flaming in public chat should be prohibited as much as possible. This, obviously, does not mean you can't say anything at all, and do compensate we decreased the strictness with which non-public chat gets moderated. Certain people however, some of whom are regulars, other clan-less, although most of them are involved in a clan, refuse to follow this and go ahead anyway. We have to draw the line somewhere: if we allow you calling other people a "crybaby", another person will see that as an Ok to use "fucker", after which we're back to the sweary environment all over again.

In the initial period of this rule, which still is active, we are indeed quite strict on this. If one cannot understand and/or respect the rules we have on the server, then we initially ask them to stop swearing. Most of these people however continue doing so after the warning, so a mute is given. Let's face it, HC4L, BB and lately BA are quite mouthy and have to proof their manhood by calling the ones who kill them "losers", "idiots", "morons" and frequently even worse words, which randomly involve diseases, racist comments and discrimination. Following that behavior, combined with the large variety of people, cultures and nationalities around on our community, you can imagine that it's very easy to insult a single person or a group of people.

Furthermore I have to admit that the policy on clan members is a lot more strict than the one on normal, clan-less players. A clan is a group, a team which respects each other and covers the backs of every member in it. It's way easier to call someone a "retard" if you know your clan mates are going to support you with it, which often is the case with HC4L players. We have various statistics showing that swearing in this group is much more common than among other players, so we had little other choice than to do so.

We simply want Las Venturas Playground to be a nice, controlled and friendly environment once again, a community in which is little place for swearing, let alone racism and discrimination. Action had to be taken, which we did, and except for a few stubborn clan-members (most of who can be found in the "Ban Appeals" forum) it had a nice effect. In the future we will most likely become less strict, but we first have to stabilize the current situation to get a general "Ok" for it. And believe me, it can get a lot worse for clans; clan-bans for four clans, being RT, HC4L, BB and BA have already been discussed due to behavior of some of their members, even though neither got activated.

To reply on your original question: I think Nakebod knew very well you were talking English, however, the /lang command automatically unmutes you after a few minutes, albeit with a "please talk English" message. Until a proper /swear-like command has been implemented, admins will frequently use /lang for their own convenience, even though it displays the wrong message for the one being muted. As for the urban-style usage of the English language, I personally do not consider a sentence to be proper English until every single word can be found in a dictionary and the sentence is grammatically correct. On top of that, despite knowing that the whole "you didn't talk English"-story isn't really what Nakebod meant, you very well know that he isn't a native English speaker whereas you are. Your use and knowledge of the language will most likely be superior to his, not only for now, but also for many years to come. I doubt there is little confusement about that :-)

[Maddolis]

I understand all of the above posts (pretty good for foreigners ).

I feel I must still press the point that the admins should make an attempt to react to various circumstances (flaming, for example) in a similar way.
Of course, no two admins are the same, and I nor anybody else can ask anyone to, because everyone's unique (etc etc). However, admins should react similarly to avoid being seen as "biased" (omgomg admin A muted me for "you suck balls" but you're not muting fighter A for "fuck you"? omg admin abuse).

Although in the long run I disagree with the harsh penalties for flaming, I do agree that the action should take place now- and after LVP's crewmembers govern the community harshly for a couple of weeks, and the LVP environment undergoes a noticable change, then I'd suggest you consider uplifting the tight administrating. Of course, we (I feel funny saying "we" as I do flame in self defence, and tend to regret "overreacting" half the time) have not achieved that goal quite yet- but once the environment is lighter then perhaps the occasional expletive would be fine, in this a)game for b)adults.

Summing up my argument:
a) I still think muting me for "crybaby" is far too harsh. Words like "idiot" "crybaby" "fool" "silly man" or whatever shouldn't be mutable, unless completely spammed over the course of a minute or something.
b) Same with that "use english" mute. Seriously...
c) I agree with the harsh policy only as a temporary action- if the environment doesn't lighten up, then perhaps a new strategy could be suggested (lets stay with this one for a while though).
d) 90% of Peter's shirts are noticably stained with sweet-chilli-sauce.

To infinity and beyond(?),
Maddolis.

On top of that, despite knowing that the whole "you didn't talk English"-story isn't really what Nakebod meant

Actually I asked him afterwards and that was what he meant (I hadn't sworn for many minutes before anyway).

[ooshie]

Considering your past, as well as present (since the this new rule was implemented) I don't think this mute was wrong. When I was temp mod not to long ago I received numerous complaints about you taxi abusing. I watched you, and lone behold, you taxi abused (which was against the rules, as stated by Peter in-game and elsewhere). I warned you instead of jailing you like I should have. I got more complaints, so I watched you again. Once again, you taxi abused and I said something to you AGAIN instead of punishing you like I should have. Then you told me to "suck your cock". Being a Temp, I didn't plan on doing anything about this knowing the next thing out of your mouth would "your a fucking temp, blah blah blah". Then I was told by a member of the management to kick you.

Then this happened:

[08:51] <&Nuwani> [20] *** [W]Maddolis left the game (kicked).
[08:52] <Joker> !msg are you fucking kidding?
[08:52] <Joker> !msg a fucking TEMP kicking me?
[08:52] <Joker> !msg for language?
[08:52] <Joker> !msg LVP admins really need sorting out
[08:52] <Joker> !msg bunch of emo faggots, abusers and cheaters
[08:54] * Joker is now known as Maddolis
[08:55] <Maddolis> !msg hey ooshie, you emo fuck
[08:55] <Maddolis> !msg SUCK MY COCK
[08:55] <Maddolis> !msg like that?
[08:55] <&Nuweni> [--] Maddolis: kick me, fuckin emo
[08:55] <%Nuwoni> [40] estroe: Maddolis: Don't go there.
[08:55] <Maddolis> !msg I just fucking did.
[08:55] <Maddolis> !msg hope I'm not temp'd when you're on, boy.

You say that you never flame unprovoked, which is a blatant lie. You provoke almost everything said to you, and I'm sure plenty of people will agree. You are one of the biggest flamers on LVP, but for some reason it's generally overlooked by most admins ands mods. In my opinion you have absolutely no right to complain about ANY punishment you receive for flaming.

[Maddolis]

And that has what to do with the rest of the topic?

Eh, I'll provide an argument anyway.
I don't /taxi abuse. You would've got reports from some [RT] or [BB] guy without me actually doing it, to have you guys watching me incase I accidently 2shot or do whatever- but I never /taxi'd.
Anyway I went on to @report one of them for /taxi'ing, and you pm'd me with something like "maybe you should stop doing it yourself". As I am *completely* against /taxi abusing, I took it offensively (and I know your attitude problems with me), so I pm'd you "suck my cock." And got kicked for that.
That was far before any tight flaming rules.

Anyway, I see your post has nothing to do with my original topic or this thread, so excuse me for going offtopic here:



Looks like you're not the one to comment either.


P.S

and lone behold

*lo and behold.
If you're going to act smart, make sure you do it correctly

[ooshie]

And that has what to do with the rest of the topic?

Eh, I'll provide an argument anyway.
I don't /taxi abuse. You would've got reports from some [RT] or [BB] guy without me actually doing it, to have you guys watching me incase I accidently 2shot or do whatever- but I never /taxi'd.....

It doesn't. I was explaining what had happened before you decided to flame the shit out of me. I like how you went into an explanation about the taxi abuse, but not for the flaming.

And what exactly is your point with that pic? You are the only person I have ever talked to like that on LVP, with reason, and I don't regret it at all. So go ahead and post them, it doesn't bother me.

*lo and behold.
If you're going to act smart, make sure you do it correctly

Typical maddolis, finding the smallest things to try and put someone down..

[Maddolis]

You're the one that's going completely off-topic.
You are neither a moderator nor an administrator of LVP, so this thread really has nothing to do with you.

[tomozj]

You're the one that's going completely off-topic.
You are neither a moderator nor an administrator of LVP, so this thread really has nothing to do with you.

Still a developer with a point. You really act as if you rule the roost here -- don't look down on any of us. And don't deny that you are.

[Maddolis]

Well get a group of 30 guys to create a forum with the sole intention of insulting you, have every single kill you achieve attributed to your lag and come respond to me in the same way.

Those quotes seem pretty monstrous when taken out of context, but I doubt you've had 15 people screaming at you about something you care about for half an hour straight.