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+--- Thread: [Serious Discussion] Religion (/thread-26936.html)
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Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - Maka - 11-27-2012
The funniest part about religion here in Belgium, is that about 55% in the Flemish community are considered to be Catholic, whilst only 5% attends church. Yes, religion is taken very seriously around here, cough.
Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - Greyfox - 11-27-2012
![[Image: 200px-Feyenoord_logo.svg.png]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e3/Feyenoord_logo.svg/200px-Feyenoord_logo.svg.png){kind=logo}
i punch faggots who dissagree and fight when my teem loses!!
Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - Bloodst3r - 11-27-2012
(11-24-2012, 10:22 PM)Maka link Wrote: Whilst I respect your view and the way you live your life, you gotta admit that a lot of countries already go "totally chaotic" even with Islam.
Egypt for example. It's already chaotic, isn't it?! It could've even went farther, the only excuse keeping people away from more destruction is actually their religion.
Quote:Bloodster, you said yourself that you're not that religious then according to Islam you have no right to disagree with an official fatwa unless you're given permission by the authorities (In other words, have deep knowledge in religion). I was religious so I pretty much know that. Mohammad killed over 11 apostates in his time (if I remember correctly).
And a few other returned to Islam so they won't be killed, but left it right when mohamad died but were killed by the caliph.
I didn't just take that fatwa from the internet, I took it from a site that 50% of Muslims resort to. You can search as much as you want either from the internet or books or ask any of your sheikhs, I doubt that you'll find any reliable Islamic source that says otherwise. We've even been taught this at school.
I have deep knowledge of the religion, I just don't practice the religion itself, such as praying, reading Quraan etc. And anyone can disagree!
Perhaps Mohammed killed apostates, but as you should know, it's nothing compared to what happened to him, or Islam at that time. Also, as you join Islam, it's your own responsibility to agree on what's told to you.
Quote:Penalty of apostacy is not something to interpret or philosophise about, it's a proven part of the religion, and if you deny it or say otherwise, then you are to be considered an apostate yourself or a 'kafir'. It's one of the five main penalties in Islam (and all are savage and brutal unfortunately).
Oh, and you don't need to believe in anything to have a proper life, you can take my word on that.
Sorry, I've misunderstood the meaning of the word itself in the first place. Also as I mentioned above, it's your own responsibility to agree to what's told to you once you join. Some replies I expect: "I'm born a Muslim, I don't get the chance to agree or disagree upon the rules." I believe those who are born Muslims and want to be Atheists, or whatever, can abandon the religion with no penalty.
I need to! For a long time that belief actually kept me away from a LOT of bad things that I could've done, which of course would've had caused bad consequences to my health, or life.
Quote:Also, Bloodster, you said you don't pray, then you're not a Muslim why do you fool yourself just deny it all at once...
According to Islam one who doesn't pray is an infidel, Islam is calling you an infidel but you're denying it and calling yourself a Muslim. No need for that bro just leave it. Religion is not something that you can only take some parts of and leave the other parts. Since it's from God then you have to take it all word by word, if 1 thing is wrong or doesn't make sense for you then you leave it all at once.
I don't pray, yet I'm a Muslim. Only if you don't pray three constant weeks at the mosque you're an infidel, I only attend the Friday's prayer.
At this age, you can take some parts and leave some parts actually. I guess you know why, because of what Mohammed said, that the farther the age, the less religion is practiced by its own people which is totally normal.
Also, لكم دىنكم و لىا دىنى, is a phrase that I always like and stick to: You have your religion, I have my religion.
And eventually nothing in the entire universe is accepted by all people. Everything must have advocates and adversaries.
Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - Maddolis - 11-28-2012
(11-27-2012, 11:18 PM)Bloodst3r link Wrote: Egypt for example. It's already chaotic, isn't it?! It could've even went farther, the only excuse keeping people away from more destruction is actually their religion.
Their religion drives much of the violence.
-Name one moral or ethical action or behavior committed or carried out by a believer that could not have been committed or carried out by an atheist.
-Name one immoral or unethical action or behavior that has been committed or carried out in the name of God.
(11-27-2012, 11:18 PM)Bloodst3r link Wrote: I have deep knowledge of the religion, I just don't practice the religion itself, such as praying, reading Quraan etc. And anyone can disagree!
Perhaps Mohammed killed apostates, but as you should know, it's nothing compared to what happened to him, or Islam at that time. Also, as you join Islam, it's your own responsibility to agree on what's told to you.
That's also immoral. Killing someone for ceasing to believe in something is incredibly immoral, no matter what evil surrounds you contextually. A rapist or murderer in Germany in the early 1940s would still be evil and deserve punishment, no matter how much worse the SS or certain Nazi leaders may have been.
Secondly, it shouldn't be one's responsibility to agree with anything without researching the issue, thinking about it and searching for any inherent truth. In the developing, scientifically literate world, people are presented with ideas and suitable evidence explaining why the hypothesis was made, not "believe that E=mc^2 or you'll burn in an eternal hellfire." Every person has a right to question or test scientific discoveries- in fact it's encouraged. And if you decide to turn your back on the knowledge- even something as overwhelmingly supported such as Evolution, you are not condemned to death- people just let you be. Those are real morals.
(11-27-2012, 11:18 PM)Bloodst3r link Wrote: Sorry, I've misunderstood the meaning of the word itself in the first place. Also as I mentioned above, it's your own responsibility to agree to what's told to you once you join. Some replies I expect: "I'm born a Muslim, I don't get the chance to agree or disagree upon the rules." I believe those who are born Muslims and want to be Atheists, or whatever, can abandon the religion with no penalty.Does that mean that you believe that those who join later in life, and leave, can't abandon the religion without penalty? Can't give up unsubstantiated belief and cannot change simply the way they think without being punished?
(11-27-2012, 11:18 PM)Bloodst3r link Wrote: I need to! For a long time that belief actually kept me away from a LOT of bad things that I could've done, which of course would've had caused bad consequences to my health, or life.
I think you're giving yourself too little credit. Not to call you weak in personality as I don't know you well enough, but I'm sure you could turn away from whatever other temptations (good or bad) without the need to believe in a deity.
(11-27-2012, 11:18 PM)Bloodst3r link Wrote: At this age, you can take some parts and leave some parts actually. I guess you know why, because of what Mohammed said, that the farther the age, the less religion is practiced by its own people which is totally normal.
How is it that you know what parts to leave? I'm assuming if you had a friend who joined the Muslim faith and left promptly, you wouldn't kill them- even though your faith gives you every right (within the faith, not the law depending on where you live) to do so? The reason you're dropping this part from your belief system is through secular values. It's similar to the same old stale argument: "If you don't believe in God, where do you get your morals?," to which the response is "where do you get yours? The bible?/qu'ran?/... do you follow them precisely? Do you kill apostates or disrespect women and persocute homosexuals?"
"No, you're obviously not meant to follow those parts."
It's obvious due to a development of secular moral standards, some of which have been developed through evolution and natural selection, others which have been developed and encouraged through secular society.
(11-27-2012, 11:18 PM)Bloodst3r link Wrote: And eventually nothing in the entire universe is accepted by all people. Everything must have advocates and adversaries.Sure, but child rape, beastiality and murder also have their advocates and adversaries yet it doesn't legitimize either side. The arguments worth having are those where both sides have strong evidence supporting their views.
Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - KaBooM - 11-28-2012
(11-27-2012, 11:18 PM)Bloodst3r link Wrote: Egypt for example. It's already chaotic, isn't it?! It could've even went farther, the only excuse keeping people away from more destruction is actually their religion.
I have deep knowledge of the religion, I just don't practice the religion itself, such as praying, reading Quraan etc. And anyone can disagree!
Perhaps Mohammed killed apostates, but as you should know, it's nothing compared to what happened to him, or Islam at that time. Also, as you join Islam, it's your own responsibility to agree on what's told to you.
Sorry, I've misunderstood the meaning of the word itself in the first place. Also as I mentioned above, it's your own responsibility to agree to what's told to you once you join. Some replies I expect: "I'm born a Muslim, I don't get the chance to agree or disagree upon the rules." I believe those who are born Muslims and want to be Atheists, or whatever, can abandon the religion with no penalty.
I need to! For a long time that belief actually kept me away from a LOT of bad things that I could've done, which of course would've had caused bad consequences to my health, or life.
I don't pray, yet I'm a Muslim. Only if you don't pray three constant weeks at the mosque you're an infidel, I only attend the Friday's prayer.
At this age, you can take some parts and leave some parts actually. I guess you know why, because of what Mohammed said, that the farther the age, the less religion is practiced by its own people which is totally normal.
Also, لكم دىنكم و لىا دىنى, is a phrase that I always like and stick to: You have your religion, I have my religion.
And eventually nothing in the entire universe is accepted by all people. Everything must have advocates and adversaries.
You obviously have very little knowledge in your religion. If you have deep knowledge as you claim then why aren't you praying? Why aren't you reading God's holy book that has all secrets of the universe and solutions to all problems?
Actually, the fact that you're not reading Qur'an alone proves that you're not as knowledgeable in religion as you claim.
And no, you can't disagree with a fatwa that came from a sheikh unless you know as much as him or more about religion.
I'm not saying that on my own, I studied in a fucking Islamic institute for 5 years (which I regret right now).
You said you don't pray but still a Muslim?
Muslim scholars say otherwise:
http://www.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=1145
As I said before, since you claim religion is from God then you have to follow it literally as God said. God says you have to pray 5 times a day, then you do, no questions asked. That's what we've been taught ever since we were kids.
You can't take one part of religion and leave parts you don't like. If you disagree with some of it or believe is wrong/unnecessary then it is most certainly not from God, because that contradicts with Islam's view of God as the "Almighty" and "All-knowing" etc...
Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - Maka - 11-28-2012
(11-27-2012, 11:18 PM)Bloodst3r link Wrote: I need to! For a long time that belief actually kept me away from a LOT of bad things that I could've done, which of course would've had caused bad consequences to my health, or life.
Why would you have to make excuses to yourself in order not to be violent? Why just not do the "good thing" and not be violent?
That's something I don't get. Also, if you don't mind me asking, where do you reside?
Also, can you guys explain this to me?
NSFW - Mourning of Muharram
Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - Maddolis - 11-28-2012
... I can't.
Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - Maka - 11-28-2012
(11-28-2012, 04:05 PM)Maddolis link Wrote: ... I can't.
Hey, me neither!
Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - Tuism - 11-28-2012
(11-28-2012, 02:45 PM)Maka link Wrote: Also, can you guys explain this to me?
NSFW - Mourning of Muharram
That's shiite Muslims, mourning the death of one of their Imams...
If you want a logical explanation for why do they flagellate their children, then take a number and wait for eternity.
I used to deny that side of Islam by considering it a distorted version of Islam, but now when I see how Shiites look at it; the Sunnis are no closer to the real Islam than them.
Re: [Serious Discussion] Religion - IDmad - 11-28-2012
(11-28-2012, 02:45 PM)Maka link Wrote: Why would you have to make excuses to yourself in order not to be violent? Why just not do the "good thing" and not be violent?It sure is nice to get some scars as a child, whether u wanted them or not.
That's something I don't get. Also, if you don't mind me asking, where do you reside?
Also, can you guys explain this to me?
NSFW - Mourning of Muharram
Wtf is wrong with the description?? "Heart warming mourning by devout Muslims in Asia."
EDIT: Oh, didn't take time to read it properly and to notice it was sarcasm, my bad.
